Is the world different or are we different?
If you were born prior to 1980 think back to your childhood.
Would you let your kids, nieces, nephews or whatever have the freedom that you had?
I remember being 9 years old walking about 5 miles from my house to my dad's shop, crossing busy streets and traipsing through dilapidated neighborhoods.
When working with my dad when I was little, he would send me walking to to the junk yards and parts shops to pick up items he needed. I would step over bums, walk though groups of gang members and fend off wild eyed snarling guard dogs sometimes all in one day. It was scary but I figured if my dad wasn't worried why should I be.
I used to leave early on a Saturday morning and play outside all day until dark. A couple times my mom got pissed off and yelled for me but otherwise there were no problems.
Starting in the 3rd grade when I was eight years old I had my own house key, I would get off the bus around 3pm, let myself in, do my chores and wait three or four hours for my parents to get home. There was never any problem.
Whenever my friends and I could find some woods we would go out and build tree houses sometimes forty feet up, we shot sling shots and BB guns at each other sometimes had fist fights with other kids that would pick on us.
When my parents would go out on a Saturday night they would leave me with a 12 year old baby sittter. Hmmm that wasn't half bad come to think of it.
I wasn't alone. Most of my friends were treated exactly the same way.
Looking at my kids now I would NEVER let him do that kind of crap. I don't let them out of my sight. Most of the stuff I just described would be considered child abuse now.
Is the world really that different? Are there really more child kidnappings now than thirty years ago? Do strange men stalk the woods waiting for unsuspecting kids?
Are children more helpless, more irresponsible or more gullible?
Do we love our kids more than our parents loved us?
Why do parents worry so much more than they used to?
Hell, I don't know.
Looks like if I want my kids to have any of the same experiences I had growing up
I'm going to have to take them myself.
I think I'll leave out the guard dogs, bums and hoodlums.
Labels: Personal interest, Society
posted by Bill Rowland @ March 29, 2007
43 Comments
43 Comments:
I think if I had kids, I would let them do most of the things I did. Okay... I wouldn't let them have Superglue. But really, my parents kept an eye on me without being overprotective about it. Some of that may be because Daddy's a cop, so they knew exactly what was out there. I might have had even more freedom if he'd been in a different line of work.
I could go places by myself, but my parents had to know where I was going, and they told me when to be back. If I wasn't going to be back on time, I was supposed to call and let them no why. They knew where I was and who I was with.
At least you're concerned about actual dangers. I get annoyed with the people who won't let their kids drink from the hose. Water tastes better from the hose!
Has the world changed? I don't really think it has that much. There were child molesters, rapists, and murderers before. I think society's view has changed. We feel like it's more prevalent because we don't just hear what goes on in our own communities. We know when a child six states away gets kidnapped. And society doesn't treat the people who do these things the same anymore. There was a time when Child Molester B would reconsider his lifestyle choices because he just saw a lynch mob take care of Child Molester A.
Indeed, I think the world has changed that dramatically. Perhaps it is due to population growth or improvements in technology providing a catch-22 so to speak.
Hell, even I wouldn't dotoday some of the things I did as a kid. such as playing in the woods all day. Now the only time I am going hiking in the wilderness is with protection.
I was born in 83 and I remember doing stuff like that. Hell me and my brother were home alone since I was in the 4th grade. We didn't sit in car seats most of time and when we did it was up front. Things are definitely different.
While we as parents are busy protecting the children from the dangers of the world, the little darlings are smoking pot, playing with bongs, taking ecstasy at parties, and looking at hard core porn on the net all before they even reach puberty.
Technology is the destructive force in society. Unfortunately.
oh things have changed. Parents mollycoddle their kids so much now and it has to do with fear - fear of death, fear of bad stuff happening!
Even from a schools perspective: - the perceived threat of litigation has caused a lot of primary schools to not let anyone eat peanut butter (because of allergies), many schools don't do cooking for the same reason, we don't let kids play outside if the temperature is abover 35 degrees c. We don't, we don't, we don't. These moves come from parents too they don't want their kids being exposed to anything that might potentially threaten them. Depending on how you look at things EVERYTHING is a potential threat - they don't let their children walk to school they drive them - partly because of stranger danger but also because life has changed - they have places to be too. They work really hard usually both parents having jobs and it's not just a matter of fear of what is going to happen to their children that has changed how they play but also because there's no time. Kids today take lessons for everything and have scheduled play dates. Gone are the days when a kid can say 'hey mum just going camping this weekend'. Hell no, this weekend you have gymnastics, football, tutoring and a play date! It's all a bit scary.
The world HAS changed that much. Today it is far more dangerous than when we were small, and more so ... As Lexcen sais, it is new things that has come we are not caution enough of. So as we try to protect them, you may discover later that they are smoking pot, watching porno etc. etc.
Hi Hammer. Thought I would finally stop in and say hello. I have a hard time letting my oldest out of my sight even though shes six now and just learned how to ride a two wheel bike. She wants her freedom so I gave her a bit more rope to ride than she had but she has to stay where I can see her. I mean she isnt allowed to go around the block yet. I wouldnt let her do the things I did either as a kid even though I lived in a small town growing up. There are way to many people that would just take her here in WI. No way. I want her and her sister where I can see them. I do agree there are so much more for kids to get into now like the internet and get into sights they shouldnt be in. but then again I didnt even have a computer growing up. My parents finally got one after I left home. I dont get it. But oh well. I would run from morning till dusk also but I wont let the kids do that. Not unless I am outside with them. Its scary sometimes being a parent.
People have less tolerance for kids these days it seems - I remember playing ball on the road and getting out of the way when a car came along, these days someone is liable to run them down for fun - or because they're "annoying kids" getting in their way.
People still do let their kids stay away all day, but these days I think they're more likely to get into trouble - there's just more 'stuff' out there.
We used to find leaving an empty box in the middle of the road, so cars would stop and think it was something important, quite funny and exciting. These days they'd have to put explosives in it to satisfy their need for excitement!
Too much stimulation these days.
Good Wednesday morning Hammer. I think the world is different.
There is more fear now, and more crime, less accountability and decency...
Maybe it is because there is no longer the same sense of neighborhood and community.
People move more frequently, you rarely know all your neighbors, there is the internet and anonymity instead of the local grocer greeting you by name --
It is a shame to miss out on the adventures and easy sense of safety I knew as a child...
Nomas, I'm a lot more careful than I used to be as well.
snowmanpoop: All that stuff you mentioned will get social services called these days. It just seemed normal back then.
lexcen: I guess thats what teenagers would do, I was thinking younger but good point. Not sure how to protect them from that.
jp: interesting, so the internet, is making kids grow up too fast or giving predators more access?
m: I know what you mean about schools. Ours isn't quite that bad yet but it's getting that way. Personally I try to give my kids lots of free time to play and do things on their own without burdening them will so many extra curricular activities.
Kirsten: I think people who hurt children are much more bold these days and many more people don't think about consequences. I guess we have a lot more sociopaths than 30 or 40 years ago.
tweety: thanks for visiting :) The way you are sounds exactly the way I am with my kids. I just can't relax for a minute. I know it can't be good but I've witnessed too much to let my guard down.
kb: good point. Kids would probably have to go to extremes to make outside in the yard as exciting as a video game. I remember kids throwing rocks at cars for sport now they drop boulders off of overpasses.
annie: excellent point about community. Back then people at least knew some of their neighbors and parents would often be outside, if they saw some kid misbehave they would drag them by the ear to their mother. Now no one talks to one another and there are no more "safe houses" on each block where a kid can run to if there is trouble.
I think it's become open season on kids and other vulnerable people. I think this society has lost its respect for human life.
I used to ride my bike to a friend's house about three miles away and all I worried about was traffic. Times have certainly changed for the worse, and I think it's the prevalence of street drugs. But you can still give your kids a childhood-just in a different way.
I believe the world to maybe not so different... we just are lambasted with the horrific details and news hourly. As a young teen I was walking home from school in a very rural area and was accosted by what I now know to be a probable child molester. I was able to get away from him and his knife but these things did go on. I feel blessed I was not scarred by this event. But even so I tried to allow my kids the freedoms I knew as a kiddo. Playing in the swamps of Jersey, building forts and setting things on fire and playing red light green light after dark-are all memories I cherish. One of the reasons we bought this little piece of wooded area was for the kids to have a safe place to play and grow. I've never regretted the decision.
Okay, I have to weigh in, 'cause I'm OLD. Sure we did all the things Hammer talks about. But, as far as the comparison to today's kids, and pot and such....I grew up in the '60s and '70's...and, sorry guys, but that behaviour is nothing new.
I wonder if the over-protectiveness of this generation of parents has anything to do with the 100,000 or so of their friends and relatives who got killed when they were kids. I think it may have left a societal scar.
The world has changed, but not so much everywhere. I'm not about to have kids again. But if I were too, I would move to a very small town.
Well, the future belongs to the youth, they will just have to figure it out. And fix it, or not, I guess it's always been that way.
I have a roof over my head, beer, and there is no war on my street. Maybe I shouldn't bother to bitch about the rest of the world.
Maybe I should just stay drunk and smile all the time. :-)
Even here in rural Mississippi, I would not let my kids do the things that I did. Up at 8 and gone all day during the summer. The only rule was be home for supper.
Dude...this is sooooo deep! I need an Advil!
Flyinfox_SATX
I think many of the dangers are the same as when the world was younger except there aren't as many wild animals/rabies etc., or horrible diseases to deal with.
However, there are probably more pedophiles out there due to the exposure in the media. Some asshole starts thinking about it who wouldn't have if he hadn't heard so much. Murder is probably more likely because there are more people to rage against. People no longer live in tight communities and have lost the consideration that goes with that. It's easier to be rude or less inhibited when no one knows who you are.
The availability of drugs has created a need for money in certain youth. Break-ins have increased to fill that need. Empty homes due to both parents working and kids at school have made breaking in easier.
We want more now - and there's more to want so both parents need to work. Homes full of great stuff are standing there empty of people. Pretty tempting.
Parents are working all the time and schedule activities that take up the kids free time. The kids do not have the close connections to family they used to. The kids lives may be joyless. I think this contributes to drug use. And wanting more stuff to fill the emptiness.
We used to be able to disappear for days "camping" as kids. Our parents had a vague idea where we were but never checked on us as far as I know. I'd have been 7 or 8. My brother 10 or 11.
What amazes me now is that we cooked our meals - hot dogs and beans mostly over fires - never got burned. We made sure the fires were out when we left the camp. We washed our dishes in the lake. We changed into pj's for bed. We never tried to stay up all night.
One of the things back then - we were rarely alone - if we had friends or siblings with us, our parents were ok about us being away for a long time. I would also go for long walks alone which worried my folks a lot.
Kids have changed. I have a creek that runs behind my house. I have walked it many times. I have yet to see a kid in there, checking it all out.
The physical skill sets of kids is dropping horribly.
Unless, of course, you count their nintendo thumbs...
I think the world is about the same over-all. Parents HEAR about more stuff, so they assume more stuff is occuring.
One could probably predict more stuff happening statistically due to tighter population densities resulting in more stuff per sq. mile, verses more stuff per person.
Hammer the world has changed, and unfortunately not all of the changes have been for the better. I definitely won't let my kids do half of the stuff I did as a child. Kids attitudes have also changed, they seem to be less tolerant & ruder than the kids I grew up with.
I think the overscheduling thing stems from "if little Susie doesn't get into the right Pre-K, she'll never get into the right law/medical school." If what you're doing can't be measured to show you outshine your peers, it's worthless. And maybe because parents think other things like that are too damn dangerous. If there's no adult in arm's reach, the kids are in imminent peril.
My mom is probably a prime example. She seems to believe that the world is waiting to pounce if you let your guard down for an instant. She's not smothering, but it can get damned annoying. And the paranoia does wear off on you after a while.
On the other hand, Dad's view after 13 was "Go have fun. Stay away from anything you can't beat up or outrun." No wonder he said to only tell Mom a quarter of what was really going on, if that.
- ISU Tinkerer
I was born in the time, where you could take fruit and homemade goodies for halloween. Now so many sicko's try to hurt people. I've always been in a small town. We used to stay out till mid on halloween, and dress up at school, and the kids aren't allowed now.
I had a man follow me on the way home from school one day and when I told my mom, she told her brother and the guys at work, and the community "fathers" took care of him. You can't do that now a days. Even if you call the cops, they won't do anything till something actually happens.
My father was a cop, so I'm not down talking them, just stating what restrictions have been put on them now.
I used to stay at home from 3 till 6 or later when I was 8 years old on, I had the key around my neck thing.
And in the summer, I was either home alone, or I told mom I was going out, and I wouldn't be back tills he got off work. She never knew where I was, but had no need to worry.
Now I freak out just starting to leave the kiddo home alone for a couple hours, and this is the age of cell phones, and easier ways to check on someone.
I think there is much more crime and sicko's now, but I think that's because parents and society stopped "taking care of things" the way they were long ago. So...the criminals have not much fear of retribution now.
janet: respect for life is at an all time low indeed. It's scary.
cheesy: the reporting of the disgusting nature of people and the willingness of people to go into detail and make a mini series about it probably makes things seem worse than they are. It worked on me. Glad your kids have some land to play on. I'm sure it will benefit them.
bob johnson: thanks for visiting, Yeah the drugs were around when I was kid too, but most of us kids didn't pay attention, I'm thinking we were too innocent and the wost thing we found was a lost pack of smokes or a playboy magazine laying in a pile of trash somewhere. It wasn't enough to mess us up.
bbc: I would like a small town but I also like my privacy, I've grown accustomed to anonymity, I think I'm probably part of the problem in that regard because I'm a loner.
I'd like to stay drunk and smile all the time too..maybe half the time ;)
editor: I had the same rule. I think those days are gone unless we go hunt down all the child predators.
flyinfox: You and me too bud :)
jeannie: kids are willing to do much worse now, like kill instead of beat up someone. Kids are learning about sex too young and the media reads like a sordid pulp novel. These things cannot be good.
gone are the days of the two parent family and a stay at home parent.We are scared of our own shadows it seems. But I'm not taking any chances.
Scott: I agree completely, I used to get pissed at the kids tearing up shit in the drainage ditch and greenbelt behind my house. Parents were driving their kids to my yard so they could play in a fucking ditch. I finally realized that maybe that's all these kids have. I just hate cleaning up after them.
mrsjosegoldbloom: I agree Kids are more rude, bold and anti-social. I see exceptions but I'm amazed at what parents are churning out.
ISU: sounds like my family, my mom would be over protective about dumb things and my dad would say go have fun. It all worked out but I didn't mention a lot of things.
Burfica: our childhoods sound very similar. I wish there was more "taking care" of problems in the community. I think that's what really makes people behave.
Starting in the 3rd grade when I was eight years old I had my own house key, I would get off the bus around 3pm, let myself in, do my chores and wait three or four hours for my parents to get home. There was never any problem.
Ya'll locked your doors? Shoot, we would go on vacation for 2 weeks and leave the doors unlocked in case a neighbor needed to borrow something!
When my parents would go out on a Saturday night they would leave me with a 12 year old baby sittter.
When I was 12 years old, my parent would go out on a Saturday night and leave me to take care of my 2-year old sister. No one thought that was in the least bit strange.
I live in a very smalltown _ I let them do pretty much what I did - when they want to...
You have so many good links Mr H - I am going to spend an hour or two going through them soon. Thanks for it..
My daughters didn't have the freedom my siblings and I had in the 60s and 70s, small town Louisiana.
We tried to be flexible, but we definitely kept a tighter reign on them than my parents did for me.
We were in a suburb of Dallas, then of Atlanta, then Monroe, Louisiana, and finally her in Palm Bay, Florida. They're almost grown and I regret that they didn't have some of that freedom to roam that we did in little bitty towns as kids.
Oh well. We did our best.
I had a huge comment, but I'm going to submit it to your advice blog.
As a society, we are just messed up, and that has everything to do with how we are raising our children. We are sheltering them from all the harmful things when we should be doing the opposite. That's how kids grow up and that's the only way this vicious circle of insanity is going to be broken.
That was an excellent post.
Morning glory: sounds like your rules were even more relaxed.
mutley: It's probably safer in the small towns where people tend to know each other.
jam: all we can do is our best. It's hard for me to take chances with my kids. I never considered these things when I was growing up.
Ryan: Not sure how to go about getting the kids more independent. I guess it's all part of the weaning process. Can't wait for your dear hammer question.
It's a combination of a more dangerous world where nobody knows their neighbors; irresponsible spoiled children who have very little if any sense of right, wrong, danger or common sense and the fact that today's youngsters don't actually go outside to play, they are entertained by video games, TV and the internet. Parents, too, let this happen. When I was young I had no video games and five channels to choose from. Summer was time to spend outside.
Not me, I don't need privacy. I love small towns, where when I speak everyone listens. I was once asked to run for mayor of a town. But I don't see me being a politician. I had a business and was putting out a weekly newsletter and being much more effective by picking on the mayor.
If I'm going to be the mayor of a town, I'm running it, meaning I will have to own it.
I'm not good at democracy, it's my way or the highway.
No helmets or pads while bike riding and we didn't have seat belts until 1963. Somehow I lived.
When I was growing up I had no idea what "danger stranger" or "inapropriate touching" was. I grew up thinking all grown ups were to be listened to and followed blindly.
Now, I teach my kids to question everything. And that NO grownup EVER needs a child's help in finding his puppy...
Sad but true.
Should I have kids, I would want to raise them in a small town. I was born in 83, but had the same experiences as you, Hammer. Mostly because I was in a tiny town. It had its problems (no cops meant there were drugs all over, but we all just kind of knew to be careful). Sure, there are some conveniences in cities, but I'd much prefer to raise my family in a small town.
If I couldn't find a way to live in a small town, I would raise kids a lot differently. The more people around, the worse they are, it seems. They don't pay attention, feel any responsibility, or care. At least that's how it seems to me.
I'd say it's a combination of things--maybe more actual danger/crime, but also the media has upped the sense of fear, until it permeates everything.
Good food for thought, Hammer.
sornie: that is a very astute and accurate representation of the way things really are.
BBC: there is no better leader than a benign dictator
phosgene: seatbelts didn't catch on till 85 lots of us lived through the gory years.
vancouvr damn straight. Everyone is an enemy until proven otherwise
drew: that seems to be the way it is, gotta do the right thing, no matter what. Kids are a pain in the ass and we have to keep track of what goes on.
jocelyn: There are so may factors I wish I could take my kids back in time.
Oh yea, it's changed and it's 'progressively' getting worse and worse.
I grew up the same way Hammer, and during the same time period as you. I know and agree to what you're saying...
Very sad how we've become prisoners in our own homes. Yes, it was much nicer being able to play unsupervised, totally free and having only to come home before dark. Won't see that again, unfortunately.
I definitely think the world has changed that much and I think it's scary as shit.
The thought of something happening to one of my kids because I was neglectful or simply not watching as close as I could have been horrifies the hell out of me. I don't think I would survive it.
gunz: I wonder if we will ever be able to take this country back from the muggers, pedophiles and sociopaths?
madZ: You are right. Prisoners in our own homes. Sad
groovy: That's exactly my biggest worry. What if...
It sucks that they can't do what we used to do but then we have to think about what our parents did and the stuff we couldn't do growing up.
I try to be honest w/my son. He is 6. What is funny is he is very respectful were adults are not. me and him were in target one day and a lady bumped into him. She glared at him as if it was his fault.
He looked at her and said without a smile or being mouthy "You are suppose to say excuse me" she replied "What a rude kid" I was standing right there and my brain was still trying to process what she just said. He didn't and replied "ma'am you bumped into me and then gave me a scary look, why is that my fault?"
Adults are not respectful. We can tell kids to be as much as we want, but if we do not model that behavior... then it is like we are mute.
We have told the little man that he is to be respectful and -honest-
What a double edge sword. He knows how to make eggs (really by himself, we watch him, he loves making us breakfast), he can get himself cereal and milk without making too much of a mess. He builds large cities from assorted blocks, rector sets (sp), and legos of all sizes. He gets the V-smile (a learning video game system) 10 minutes a day, every other day if he behaves (so learning becomes a reward and something that he loves to do)
We also take him online at google images of earthquakes, storms, islands, pictures of the earth. We also read to him at night and let him play at the park and get all muddy and drink from the hose.
Parents make or break a child.
You know, I wasn't born until 1982, but I grew up in a small town where I did exactly the same thing. I would ride bike every where, and my parents never worried. Well except one time when there was a tornado warning and I went off with my friends instead of coming home, but, hey, who could blame them. By the way, I picked your blog up off Snowmanpoops, you are hilarious man.
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